In this interview - which is in fact rather a short conversation - Emir seems more to make fun of the journalist than to reveal him the secrets of his last film...

Emir Kusturica has finished his new film ! The shooting has lasted more than a year and one of the characteristics of this film is that it has two titles : "Hungry Heart" for Europe and "When life was a miracle" for Serbia. As we're waiting to see it, Emir is in visit in Belgrade, for the opening of the festival of student film. We make a small exclusive interview with him.

• The journalists seek information on your new film. What's the problem ? This silence lasts since more than a year !
  • Emir Kusturica. I would like to speak... but I cannot "Universal", the official distributor of the film forbid it to me. It's in the contract ! And be sure I don't like it, because I can really say nothing.
• This is not usual. Why did you accept such a contract ?
  • In fact, they know that it is very difficult to stop me then when I decide to speak, so they put it in the contract. I can speak a lot, and sometimes not very nicely. Somebody must have said them during shooting. But when I'll start to speak... it will be the feast !
• But you've just finished shooting !
  • Yes, a few days ago ! I worked more than a year, and I exploded all the agreements on the duration of shooting.
• You work in Serbia with serbian actors. Can we know some more ?
  • Well no, I can't say anything, because I would have problems with the distributor. Thus, I cannot say to you that we shot in Zlatibor, I cannot say that the actors are Slavko Štimac,Nataša Šolak,Vesna Trivalić,Aleksandar Berček,Davor Janjic,Stribor Kusturica,Nikola Kojo,Vuk Kostic,Dana Todorović. And you should pay great attention, because they could put me in jail for that !
• What about the story of the film ?
  • I must shut my mouth.
• OK, so don't say anything, and I will speak. The story takes place in Bosnia. Luka is a Serb and his son an hostage in the hands of the Bosnian soldiers. The Serbs give him a young Bosnian nurse for an exchange, but they fall in love.
  • Great ! You know everything on the film !
• Where is the film now ? And when will we be able to see it ?
  • We're now working on sound & image editing. It will be presented in Cannes next year.
• You are in Belgrade for a few days. How do you feel here?
  • Nice, as usual. The city is beautiful, luminous "glamour" even. They are selling the country.
• What do you mean ?
  • I'm speaking about the political situation. But I don't need to explain it to you. You know all about that. You write it almost everyday.
• Do you read "Kurir" ?
  • Yes, I read it on internet. Thus, I know all what's happening here.

N.DEVIC

The one who's called "the genius with unbrushed hair" has always been the target of hypersensitive people of ex-Yugoslavia, who think being able to judge the moral values. He was said to be a man without morals, honesty and to have betrayed his country, but nobody would dare to attack his talent, his glory and his pride. These last years, it always was of good tone to attack Emir Kusturica. He and his films are political events in his ex-country - and of the first class events - and he is considered with as much importance as the politicians. Said to be Serb nationalist at the time of Milošević, to show the Serbs as gipsies, to betray Bosnia, "the Emir of Serbia" as they call him, the genius with hard words, strong films and tight fists is a director of the same level as Almodovar or von Trier. As we discuss in a bar in Dorcol, in the suburbs of Belgrade, we have the impression that people here do not like it, and between two cups of tea, on his guards, he seems ready to answer: "Be careful, I am Kusturica."

• Belgrade never received you as you wished. What do you think about it ?
  • Emir Kusturica. I arrived here as a child, directly from the station in the Balkan streets, I always had strong emotions there, because it is from here that I went all over the world. From Belgrade, I went to the faculty of Prague, thanks to my aunt. It was for me the place from where I could go everywhere in the world, and where I returned when I had enough to be abroad. As a station I could not pass. Like New York for Balkans. Gently destroyed, full with strange constructions, Belgrade has always been the center of the political and cultural life of the Balkans. I have my place here. This place has maybe not the same kind of intensity as in the past, but I am a divided person ; and a part of me is in Argentina, in France, in Japan, and of course in Belgrade. However, I've always had here a large audience.
• What did you feel to be rejected from your own city ? Or was Sarajevo just a starting point to reach other tops ?
  • If there were not the war and this tragedy, I would readily pass some time in Sarajevo in the year, but all that occurred in this city, my decisions, my animosity became stronger. We were enemy on ideological levels, then it turned into wound, on both sides, and the damage on my own family is obvious. My family is the model of a kind of international idea, because we are a mixture various nations. During the war, Sarajevo did not do anything to avoid the mobilization of the Moslems, not only to send them to fight, but also to gather them in a separate country. Only Izetbegovic had the capacity to be president of all the nations of Bosnia, there should we live and his ideas should we defend. If only he said the truth and stopped collaborating with Karadžić and the Croat nationalists. He wanted to make a nation and to put it in position of victim, which was the truth. He can be blamed, even if he did not ask himself the bombardments, but the extremist Serb leaders always got along well with him. I cannot stop thinking about it, when Bosnian police struck the door of my parents apartment, that they stole value things, and that my father, who was Partisan during the second world war, was declared Tchetnik. Two months later, he died of a heart attack in Herceg Novi. They burned two houses in Visoko, after the agreements of Dayton, which was a clear sign. "ethnic cleansing" is a difficult classification.
    Regarding Sarajevo, I have no emotion ; this story exceeded all my capacities of patience. I still have there very good memories and good friends, but this city is not free. They live under a protectorate. OK, let us look at the facts from another point of view, and at the end, you trace a line and you look at where you are. The result is disastrous, they never lived so miserably in their whole life, and I do not think that they condemn Karadžić in the future, like war criminal.
    I could have adopted an easier position in this interview, with nice words, but that I will not do. I am not this kind of people. I pass for evil. I am delighted to take care of my enemies and to ake care about it because, can you imagine a country without real enemy, without dissident ? It would not be a country.
• What brings the life of emigrant to you?
  • That suits me very well. Thank God, because I lived in Sarajevo and Belgrade, because I already thought that before the war. Within this provincial framework, my work will just produce disorders. Far from the eyes, far from the heart. From time to time, I come with my films, and I cause discussed reactions. Some people like, others not. But I've left far from here. Thus, those who think bad of me, I advise them to make films, because films are the only thing I understand. It is very easy to make it ; a film on the Serbs, with many effects, send your message to the world, and they will accept you.
• Why don't you speak any more to Goran Bregović?
  • Goran Bregović is a kind of modern person. He is likely to steal your wallet and then to invite you to a diner with your money. He can show great friendship, through which we passed, then he protected himself, but with charm. Thanks to my friendship with Iggy Pop, he could make the song of Arizona Dream, and after years of trial, we learn that the music was stolen, and that he must pay for it. He mocked Iggy and me, and the CD was prohibited. On the other side, his talent is enormous, and I admit it without any discussion. I sometimes made regrettable errors by judging certain people, but there is nevertheless always a minimum of moral values to have, and my friends cannot have the ethics of a water plant. It is hard to hear from the French Justice Court that the music was stolen. He said that I had told things on him because of my stress. I got rid of that with my films some twenty years ago, and it is rather him who reacts like this today, as a beginner who discovers the world.
• Are you still in contact with Milorad Vucelic ? [ note: Milorad Vucelic was the director of Serb television under Milošević ; it was one of the Co-producer of Underground. It is accused of complicity in Zoran Djindjic's murder; he is in prison since April 2003]
  • No, I haven't seen him for a long time, but I couldn't say anyhing bad against him. He was correct with me, and I cannot complain. I do not feel enemy to him, even if I know that it is not very popular to say that about him, because he is related to Milošević and his television.
• At the time you were filming Underground...
  • Yes. I remember; the German producor had asked me, knowing that Vucelic was the director of Serbian television, in what he was engaged, regarding the film, and the message the film was going to represent. I thought that he knew it well, because he passed by various phases in its life. At the communist time, he worked in the theatres, and made great productions. The relations between us two were very good, and often what people mention it is the financial support. In Underground, the money came from France, and was spent in Serbia ; 2 million dollars, I think. Serbian television and Mr. Covic, the mayor of Belgrade, made this film possible and supported us. We spent much money form world banks.
• Do you still fight ?
  • No, it is a myth. But I did it...
• Have you already beaten up someone ?
  • I do not have much luck for that. I practically do not have social life. I don't go out very often, because my sensitivity is not recommended for intensive contacts. When Bergman beats up a journalist, you'll have a world where his films can be appreciated. In my case, it wasn't for my films. It was for remarks, lies and stupidities. People say things like : Kusturica and Sidran make fundamentalist and Marxists films. When I meet these people, I have a dilemna, how to let this kind of lies, but how to make them understand that they are wrong ? I avoid conflicts, and these people have chance because I don't go out very often.
• At the end, you miss your revenge ?
  • I forget these things... even when they exceed the limits. I am of peaceful nature, but I need to react on people, on life. I am stubborn.
• What do you think people say on Koštunica, that he would be nationalist.
  • Well, probably we have machines that can discover who is a nationalist and who is not. You are declared such if you refuse to drink Coca-Cola or to eat hamburgers. They say he is nationalist because he speaks like De Gaulle, but in his acts, you find no trace of nationalism. All depends on what you call nationalism. You can look at what occurs in Algeria, without making anything; and simply comment on. We categorize. But to be nationalist today, it is well. At the time of Tito, Serb nationalism were clever people, with whom one could discuss. It makes me laughing, when I read what someone who works in Helsinki for the Humans Rights Commity writes that Koštunica is national-socialist... He likes his country, and emotionnally, he has national feelings, but that can't make anything bad. I was without nation ; my only bond with Serbia was my language ; and I was told to be nationalist. Thus, if you do not have a nation, if do not believe in God, you are nationalist because you say that Reagan sent American soldiers to Nicaragua to kill people in the name of politics.
    Koštunica and I, we have similar family names. I make jokes of it when I see him. I told him that I had received congratulations when he was elected president. Greek friends wished me good luck for the Presidency of Serbia. They said that if Vaclav Havel had succeeded, I must also be able to be President.
• Regarding Milošević's trial in The Hague, do you think it would be better if he was judged in Belgrade ?
  • There is a million problems. As President of the Republic, everyone can sue you. Anyway, as long as the social environment is not as advanced as in America where the President puts his hand on the Bible and lies so easily. This trial is based on false facts. If you say that he betrayed his oath on the Bible, they say you it is not serious. On the other side when the American President has a love affair, they make such a mess of it. In this situation, I wonder: how it is possible that the Constitution of Bosnia-Herzegovina was made in Washington ? Today, everything is possible. I know people who were strong oponents to Milošević during the War, who are patriotic today, and who say they will defend their War criminal. If he is really. In this trial, it is a situation of pre-judgement. He is condemned before being accused. In Europe, people say that it is already finished. In fact, all and everyone is being judged, his politics and him personally. I would like to ask many questions about this court, who made this European Court, but the Americans are not under this juridiction. In any case it is ideal to make a great nation. Finally, I think he will be judged here ; it is what is going to happen. You will see.

"The film life is a miracle looks like a very probable mixture between Shakespeare and the Marx Brothers", so does Emir Kusturica define his new film. As a producer, he prepares the first screening of Jagoda in Supermarketu (strawberries at the supermarket) at the Berlin film festival. He is also finishing his new film, and preparing the promotion of his serbian monograph which Belgradian Goran Gocić wrote. During the shooting, the discipline is very strict. The journalists will know more about the film when it is ready. We say that we are from Politika and between two scenes, Emir takes some time speaking a little...

• The film life is a miracle (working title Hungry Heart) is a love story. It is about the refugees and the insane time of the ethnic conflicts in the Balkans. Can you give your impressions and your doubts when you started to work ?
  • Emir Kusturica. This film simply follows the interest I carry to the destiny of the people in this area, and I frame them in a social and historical context. Since 1992, each one of us passed by difficult moments and has its own history on what occurred. The death of Yugoslavia, the war, the fall of the social system... When I read the story of a Serb, who at the beginning of the war in 1992 must choose between his son in jail in the other camp and a muslim woman who was his hostage, I realize that this case has the dimension of a shakespearian dilemna, but that it is also the true life. As usual at home, I start working on a small love story which deals a little of the war. But I realize that while finishing, it is much more than a love story. This film tells how war has grown and was nourished in Bosnia, and of the demystification of the family, which I had begun with my first film and which is characteristic of all my following films. At the end, the film loses its illusions, and looks like a very probable mixture between Shakespeare and the Marx Brothers.
• You now have your own production company, you will not share success with other producers. Was that a difficult choice ?
  • Money is something so dangerous ! Since 1989, I make films financed by foreign producers. Unfortunately, I had to build a "family" production to put money within the framework of the film. I never had chance with my producers, and I think that it is a difficult and complicated deal. This film becomes a true business of family. My wife Maja is responsible for the reflexion in the production. We succeeded in extending the budget so that a euro becomes two euros. We'll practically film during one year, and we have the budget of an average European film. It is not surprising because all the film is related to my family.
• Your production company "Rasta film international " produced the first film of the young director Dušan Milić "Jagoda in Supermarketu", film selected in the section "Panorama" of the festival of Berlin. Is this your new mission ? Do you want to build a school of cinema in Yugoslavia ?
  • We produced this film, not because Maja or me need to make films, but because we think that we can help young people and talented authors while bringing our energy. In this country, the dominant idea is that, in my opinion, the professors hide the secrets of directing to their students. I wanted to make things differently. I met people of the television channel ARTE, they read the script and understood that it could be a very interesting film with a small budget. Now, this film goes to Berlin and in the theatres of Yugoslavia. I am pleased because I helped a young man to make his first film.
• These next days a book on your life and your cinematographic work will be presented. This book is already available in English. Do you think that your work is more appreciated in Europe or Yugoslavia ?
  • The cultural models in our country are imported copies of the West. A long time ago, we celebrated our big directors like Zika Pavlovic and Sasa Petrović. The time of the authentic authors of films is behind us. In the movie theaters of Belgrade, there are few films of big directors. They want to make audience and put Mike Leigh or Almodovar in the corner. It is really the time of the robbers and the gangsters of Hollywood who only want to make profit... In all the cities of the world you can see decent films, but not here ! It is for that reason that I consider myself as belonging to a world conspiracy authors against the colonization of Hollywood. Honestly speaking, the role of "middle class" cash robber of the world cinema is rather comfortable. Rather than that, I try not to comprise me like a "province giant" who makes films for his root public and whose films do not do much noise beyond Belgrade. It is logical that this book has been published in English first, because I am present in the cinemas of the world for more than 20 years. There is a misunderstanding which exists regarding my contribution to the Yugoslav cinema and the privileges I have are the result of a certain reflexion. I am sorry if some young directors think that I block their way towards Hollywood, because they do not understand the fact that they will never be accepted by the "Hollywood machinery", but not : in any way I do not block the road to them !
• Your vision of culture and cinema today?
  • I believe in our people, and especially in the individuals who are always able to find ideas. The cinema in this country passed by several periods, from the "black wave" to the "school of Prague", there are thus many things to retain, and we are right if we want to defend this heritage. The imported models of American films make us a province of the United States. But we are outsiders, and at the same time, the models of cinema in the small countries evolve, progress, and show that the road for the cinema of the world is open. Lars von Trier is not an Hollywood director, Almodovar neither, but a lot of people like their films, like the Cohen brothers. There is a dominating model of imitation of what is big and powerful and which can ruin our cinematographic industry here. Fortunately, our best weapon is the public, invaluable thing, but it is similar everywhere in Europe. If we have the courage to make this public vibrate as much for an aesthetic point of view than humorous, it is formidable !
• What is your opinion of the cinema festivals ? Do they help small films to conquer international scenes ?
  • The cinema festivals are the only places where small countries can promote their films. I cannot imagine other opportunities so that French, German, Japanese or English sees "Strawberries at the supermarket" than in festivals !
• Are there any strategies in Europe for screening author films ? Strategies of defense compared to Hollywood ?
  • The only solution of cultural strategy to defend oneself from the Hollywood hegemonism would be a law, a regulation on the royalties, which already exists in France. The only advantage that have the serbian films is that they are not subtitled. I think that for this reason our public remains faithful to the serbian cinema.